Swami Narendra, Ma Mukti and Ma Divya speak of their Osho experience.(interview)

(Here’s an interview of Swami Narendra Bodhiattva, Ma Amrit Mukti, and Ma Divya Gandha taken by Ma Anand Punyam when they visited Osho Tapoban. The article is published with permission. Pictures of Ma Divya Gandha weren't available so haven't been published in the interview)

After years of beckoning, Swami Narendra Bodhisattwa, Ma Amrit Mukti and Ma Divya Gandha, three beautiful diamonds from the Osho family finally made their way to Tapoban to grace us with their presence. As intimate disciples of Osho, they have had the privilege of living with Osho and serving him on daily basis for years. They have devoted their lives to spreading Osho’s vision as his spiritual mediums. Their love for Osho has culminated in a small but delightful commune in Dehradun. Narendra Swami worked in the publishing department while Mukti Ma and Divya Ma used to cook for Osho. We asked them to share with us their own Osho experiences.

Please say a few words about Tapoban.

Tapoban is a beautiful, very beautiful place. This is perhaps the first time we have seen such a beautiful place in the Himalayas. Osho used to say that he would like to end up in the Himalayas. He was very fond of such places. Especially Manali, which is where sannyas began. When he returned from America his first destination was Manali. He wanted to live there. But the government did not allow him to, which is why he came to Kathmandu. So obviously this is a place that is very dear to Osho’s heart. It is an ideal place for meditation. It is so secluded from the city that nobody wants to leave. In our Ashram in Dehradun, people are continuously going out for tea or shopping. Nobody seems to want to leave Tapoban after settling here. It is so tranquil. Wherever you sit silently, you are bound to enter into a deep state of meditation.

Was Osho different in his public and private life? He appears to be sober and serious in his public appearance but you have seen him in his private space.

When in public, he used to greet people by doing Namaste. But that was just one facet of his personality. When he used to sit alone amongst us, he used to be very simple and modest. He never put up a façade or try to impress anyone. There was no point to his trying to impress anyone because everyone was already impressed with him.

Swami Narendra during Energy Darshan with Osho.

You’d mentioned in yesterday’s gathering that he was quiet notorious regarding food.

Yes indeed, as far as food is concerned, he was as notorious as a kid. He really enjoyed food. Whatever it was, specially spicy food. So food was a big part of his life, but when we went to Rajneeshpuram, he was given a diet of 1500 calories per day. So that was slightly problematic. But Ma Mukti and Ma Divya now had a challenge, of pleasing his taste buds. So what they would do is make one dish spicy and make the others plain. He was very spontaneous and picky about food. We would have to provide a dish the moment he desired for it. He was very experimental as well. For example, for six months he would only have soup and toast four times a day. And then once for three weeks continuously he had malai laddoo thrice daily. Once he suddenly had the desire for black sweets. Now I didn’t know what they were and I knew that he did not like chocolates. They turned out to be Khajur sweets that look black. Ma Karuna used to make them and bring them from Bombay. Neither of us knew the recipe but we tried our best to find it. At 6:00 he said he wanted them and at 8:00 he was asking again about what was happening about his black sweets. When we finally figured out the recipe, we realized that certain ingredients were missing so we immediately sent three people out to look for them. In this way, he was quiet troublesome about his food. But at the same time it was like a challenge for us , and to be able to succeed in bringing him whatever he asked for gave us a-lot of joy.

Do you think that he was impulsive in this way for his own pleaure or for the sake of others?

He was obviously doing it for our sake, to check up on us and see how alert we are in our work. He used to test us continually. Once he suddenly had the desire to have chutney made of a special fruit called kaid that is only found in the place where we grew up. Now, everyone went crazy calling people up trying to find the fruit. When we’d finally gathered enough fruit to make the chutney, he wouldn’t take any. We later found out that there was a kaid tree in the ashram. He obviously hadn’t wanted the chutney in the first place but was only testing us.

The communes in Pune as well as Oregon were massive. How was it possible to sustain such large systems?

Osho alone could run his communes. He would be aware of everything that was happening in the commune. And instructions according to how everyone should work would reach everyone. Every little thing we would do, he would know. Pune I was such a big commune, and then Rajneeshpuram which was bigger, then Pune II. But there was never any problems. Any issue that came up would be resolved immediately so that there were no problems. He taught us an important lesson that problems essentially do not exist. We create the problems and then we try to solve them. It is our mind that creates them. Now Osho never created problems in the first place, so there was no question of having to solve them. The mind is the problem, an no-mind is the solution.

It is easy to say so. But to put it in practice is difficult.

Yes, it is difficult for us. But for Osho, it wasn’t. Osho is not in his body anymore. What do you think is the difference in the commune experiences when he was in the body and now when he’s not around. Theirs is no difference at all. The main purpose of a master is to help you lose as little of your mind as you can. So, do whatever the coordinator of your commune asks of you and forget all other things. Then where is the problem? And it isn’t that Osho isn’t around. He may not be physically present, but his aura is stronger than ever. More and more people are gathering in his communes. He had wished to have a commune in the Himalayas. And look now, there is Tapoban in Kathmandu, there’s one in Dehradun, in Dharmashala and there’s a small one in Manali as well. So there are a lot already and a lot more are yet to be made. But the real question is how devoted we really are. And not onto any one person but onto Osho, our master. If our devotion exists in totality, then there is no problem at all. And when there are no problems, then life is full of joy.

What do you think is the future of Osho’s vision?

If a fire starts in the forest, then the entire forest gets burnt in a matter of minutes. A similar fire is spreading as far as Osho’s vision is concerned. Had you ever imagined that Arun Swami would be invited all over the world to conduct meditation camps? Now people want him to stay for three months when he’s only there for 20 days. But he has to manage the commune here as well. We had never conceived that there would be so much work being done at a global level. The website http://www.oshoworld.com/ has brought all of Osho’s literature, photographs, signatures at one’s fingertips for free by publishing them online. This is such a great work that is happening. A lot of sannyassin are giving their heart and soul into spreading Osho’s vision.

Osho had the vision of self-sufficient communes. But it is difficult to run an independent commune, which means that we have to depend on outside sources and donations for the sustenance of the commune.

Yes, Osho has created his vision for us indeed. But we are not as yet ready to support a commune. When Osho was in Uruguay, he said to stop making big communes because a big commune would create hierarchy. It will generate dictatorship and disharmony. So make a commune with 12 to 15 people in it. Let’s say 3 to 4 families. And everybody is earning. Meditate every morning and evening and work during the day. Then why can’t we establish a commune, and why won’t it be self-sustainable? It is possible, definitely. The real problem is that we are holding onto certain attitudes. All the big communes that are already in existence - who is supporting them? It is people like you and me. There is a uniqueness amongst Tibetans. They give 30% of their profits to their monasteries. Sikhs give 10% of their profits to their Gurudwaras. But our sannyassin don’t even give one percent of their income. Nevertheless, if there are small communes, why won’t they be self-sufficient? Nothing is impossible.

We hope that, in this spirit of infinite possibilities, Osho’s vision will sweep the world and his dream will be fulfilled through the efforts of his sannyassin like Narendra Swami, Mukti Ma and Divya Ma.

Interview by Ma Anand Punyam